Vet resistance to raw

[RockysMom]

I'm a bit frustrated today...
Rocky was due for his distemper immunization today. The vet is always very interested in what I feed Rocky as I've been very clear that he has allergies and she agrees he is likely allergic to chicken and eggs (although doesn't really buy the grain allergy....but I've seen the horrible ears when he eats grains so I KNOW).  I told her I started raw feeding and she wasn't impressed.  I told her I'd like to hear her reasons for not supporting raw feeding in dogs.  Her issues surrounded contamination and risk of things such as salmonella (valid concerns).  But I'm very careful about how I handle the raw and clean up.

She did encourage me to try Hills prescription diet.  I already had.....and he reacted big time.  She also really liked Natures Balance LID which I've also tried with some success.  But I've decided to carry on with the raw.  I want to give this a fair trial!

But on the upside, she did refer him to an animal behaviourist (which is covered under my pet insurance if the vet refers him) for his dog aggression!  And I found someone I really like in this area so we can see her in person......I would have liked to use Joan Weston, but the distance is too far........wish us luck!

[Gerk]

Vet's don't understand dog nutrition at all.  Sad but true.  Hill's is crappy food in teh grand scheme of things ... it's the equivalent to Kraft Dinner for dogs from what I've read about it all.  I had a bit of a knock down with my vet a while back over Cooper's nutritional requirements when they found his liver enzyme levels where high and they were trying to strong arm me into feeding him Hill's.  I went another route and we totally resolved his issues by changing to a much better and much more bio-available food.

After meeting with the vet again after the fact she was amazed that what we did helped him (she had pretty much told me that going that route and avoiding feeding him the prescription Hill's food could be very bad), and finally admitted that she knew very little about dog nutrition and was just going with what she was told was the "right thing" for dogs with her vet training ... being Hill's prescription stuff.  We discussed bio-availability of food, ingredients and food allergies common to pugs.  Again she admitted that at that point I probably knew more about my dog's nutritional requirements than she did, even though I had only spent a few days researching the options!

I say stick to your guns with the raw stuff ... it's soooo much better (done properly) than anything that Hill's makes.  Same holds true for most of the popular brands of dog food (Iams, Purina, etc etc).  It's like feeding yourself Pizza Pops and Kraft Dinner and other foods that are full of weird additives, preservatives and other chemicals that you can't pronounce ... or eating good, fresh food with good fresh ingredients.

[pugmetender]

Angela, wishing you and Rocky all the best with your new animal behaviorist.
Sounds pretty positive since you like her, she practices in your area and the fact that she's covered by your pet insurance is a real bonus!

[RockysMom]

I'm going to stick with the raw......if he has issues with raw then I'll switch him, but not unless that happens which I hope never does.

I saw how he reacted to Hills and I"ll never feed it to him again.
She was very focused on the food poisoning issues.  But I'm soooo careful in how I thaw, handle and then clean the dishes and eating area.  So I think the risk is low.
It's very unpleasant being made to feel that I'm risking my dogs very life by feeding him raw.  I find that especially upsetting when he is already eating raw and before I told her what I was feeding him she was raving about how healthy he is (especially for a pug she said).

[blanche]

For what it's worth, Angela, there are also LOTS of vets who are raw positive.  My homeo vet, Dr. Carolyn Benson, is.  As is Dr. McCutcheon of the East York Animal Clinic--he sells raw in his clinic.  He's the vet that turned me onto raw feeding.

And to be fair, I think lots of vets and vet techs DO see the bad end of raw feeding--where it's been badly handled or done incorrectly so they come by their fears honestly.

[Poconut]

I don't understand how nutrition isn't more of a focus for a veterinary education when it relates so closely to health.

[blanche]

I don't understand how nutrition isn't more of a focus for a veterinary education when it relates so closely to health.

Boy, that's the 65 million dollar question.  But I think it's the same with human medicine.  It took a long time for us to clue into the complexity of diet and health and that there was more to it than just malnutrition.

I think it's the same in the pet world.  It's taking time for the crucial issue of nutrition to catch on.  and I think there's still a belief that dog's nutrition isn't that complicated and I think it is a lot more involved than we've ever thought.

[SpeedyPug]

...and you have the die hards (like my mom) who refuse to believe that anything other than what's "always been done" has any merit.  My mom is a dog person from way back- former professional groomer and show handler.  I was trying to explain to her why Jem and Geeg are on a grain-free kibble (orijen) and why it was better for them, pugs specifically (with food allergies as an issue) and all dogs in general.  And she wouldn't even consider that grain-free could be better for dogs than the standard old grain-based kibbles.  I even asked her, hypothetically what a dog would eat in "the wild" and her answer?  A dog would eat meat- it would eat grain-eaters (i.e.) herbivores and therefore, feeding a grain-based kibble was the same as what a dog would eat in the wild...  WTF???  I SAID, "that's like me drinking beer and saying I'm getting a serving of grains and beer is therefore healthy for me according to the Canada Food Guide" and the whole conversation degenerated from there.  Lesson?  You can't teach an old mom new tricks and her dogs will always eat grain-based kibbles because its the way its always been done and always will be done.  AAAUUUGGGHHH!!!

[Pugpillow]

I don't understand how nutrition isn't more of a focus for a veterinary education when it relates so closely to health.

Vet schools are funded in large part by commercial petfood manufacturers.  Piss them off and you lose your funding.  So new students come in and listen to the same lectures given by the manufacturers themselves (hardly unbiased) and the students don't know any better.  They think the manufacturers know so much and are great folks because not only partially sponsoring their education, they give them nice student perks.  Then, when they graduate to vets, the manufacturers stock their clinics with product, telling them how wonderful it is and giving them incentives for sales.  What's a vet supposed to do?  They don't know what they don't know.  Unless, of course, they take post-grad courses not sponsored by the manufacturers or see for themselves the difference.  A lot of times we have to help educate our vets.

I looked quite a while to find a vet who was onboard with my feeding raw.  And everyone I know who uses him (whether they feed raw or not) thinks he's the best.  

As for contamination through salmonella, etc., here's an interesting article: http://www.mountaindogfood.com/HealthCare/Salmonella.htm

[Pugpillow]

...and you have the die hards (like my mom) who refuse to believe that anything other than what's "always been done" has any merit. 

Actually kibble is a relative newcomer to the scene.  It only started being manufactured less than 150 years ago.  Before that, dogs ate raw meat.
 http://tolldenfarms.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126:kibble-history&catid=46:articles-health&Itemid=86

[SpeedyPug]

...i don't think my mom is 150 years old...but she's been feeding kibble "forever" so who knows? 

[Pugpillow]

...i don't think my mom is 150 years old...but she's been feeding kibble "forever" so who knows? 

LOL.  I assumed she was talking about people in general.

[lmcpug]

...and you have the die hards (like my mom) who refuse to believe that anything other than what's "always been done" has any merit.  My mom is a dog person from way back- former professional groomer and show handler.  I was trying to explain to her why Jem and Geeg are on a grain-free kibble (orijen) and why it was better for them, pugs specifically (with food allergies as an issue) and all dogs in general.  And she wouldn't even consider that grain-free could be better for dogs than the standard old grain-based kibbles.  I even asked her, hypothetically what a dog would eat in "the wild" and her answer?  A dog would eat meat- it would eat grain-eaters (i.e.) herbivores and therefore, feeding a grain-based kibble was the same as what a dog would eat in the wild...  WTF???  I SAID, "that's like me drinking beer and saying I'm getting a serving of grains and beer is therefore healthy for me according to the Canada Food Guide" and the whole conversation degenerated from there.  Lesson?  You can't teach an old mom new tricks and her dogs will always eat grain-based kibbles because its the way its always been done and always will be done.  AAAUUUGGGHHH!!!

LMAO!  your mom isn't german/dutch ??

 

[lmcpug]

I'm going to stick with the raw......if he has issues with raw then I'll switch him, but not unless that happens which I hope never does.

I saw how he reacted to Hills and I"ll never feed it to him again.
She was very focused on the food poisoning issues.  But I'm soooo careful in how I thaw, handle and then clean the dishes and eating area.  So I think the risk is low.
It's very unpleasant being made to feel that I'm risking my dogs very life by feeding him raw.  I find that especially upsetting when he is already eating raw and before I told her what I was feeding him she was raving about how healthy he is (especially for a pug she said).

don't ever feel intimidated by someone who doesn't know better.
the world needs education! if a Vet makes you feel bad then you may
need to find one that will give you positive. reinforcement on your journey!   

[RockysMom]

For what it's worth, Angela, there are also LOTS of vets who are raw positive.  My homeo vet, Dr. Carolyn Benson, is.  As is Dr. McCutcheon of the East York Animal Clinic--he sells raw in his clinic.  He's the vet that turned me onto raw feeding.

And to be fair, I think lots of vets and vet techs DO see the bad end of raw feeding--where it's been badly handled or done incorrectly so they come by their fears honestly.

I hear you.....I'm sure they see some horrible results of raw....I hope to God I'm not one of those stories!  She really is a good vet in all other respects.  I was just disappointed......
But it's ok if we dont agree on everything......at least she believes that he has allergies!!