Natural Balance users please chime in

[Anna]

I am hoping to get some feedback from Natural Balance LID users since I am noticing a disturbing correlation.  I am noticing on the site that many LID users are complaining of obsessive licking and struvite crystals.  Am I imagining things?  I am not necessarily saying the food is to blame - dogs that go on LID are usually allergy ridden- but I was hoping other users could chime in to see if there is a trend here....

[Diane]

Picking or hoping you are picking the right food is so difficult.  Maggie my last pug and Neeko were and are on NB Fish and Sweet Potatoe.  Neither had any issues with crystals.  Maggie was an obsessive licker...toys, air, her and others body parts.  Neeko is also a licker but more of an air licker.  I am not an expert but I do not think the food has anything to do with the licking.  My two other non-pugs were also both on the NB for a couple of years (they came off because they had to go to a very low fat diet) but they were not lickers at all. 
Both Maggie and Neeko had beautiful soft coats also. 

[Anna]

Good to hear.  I've had my guys on Natural Balance for a few years now, without complaint, until the crystal incident.

[blanche]

Anna:
There really isn't any correlation necessarily between crystals and a specific food--especially struvite crystals.  The vet diets work because they force a dog to drink more which flushes the system.  What connection there is (in my reading) has to do with dry vs. wet.

We've had dogs with struvites from kibble fed, raw fed, canned fed.  Water and pH levels usually take care of the issue if there isn't an underlying infection.  And some of the C and S tests don't detect some of the infectious agents that can be present.  I think that you have to request a special test to detect   However, I have forgotten the names of the infections........

ETA: found the source:

"Staphylococcus and Proteus  are most frequently the bacteria that cause struvite stones to form in the bladder of a dog. Less commonly, Escherichia coli and ureaplasma organisms are involved."

I believe that mycoplasma is another infectious agent that can be involved and doesn't necessarily show on C and S.

[Anna]

Thanks Blanche.  Darwin's latest urinalysis came back with barely any crystals and so our vet recommended a diet change to maintain that.  When Darwin had his crystal problem a month ago we switched him to canned and now the crystals are gone.  Could it really be that easy?  Is that all we need to do?

[blanche]

Thanks Blanche.  Darwin's latest urinalysis came back with barely any crystals and so our vet recommended a diet change to maintain that.  When Darwin had his crystal problem a month ago we switched him to canned and now the crystals are gone.  Could it really be that easy?  Is that all we need to do?

Yep--it could be that easy.  There are exceptions like Huey who seems to be really dedicated to hanging onto his crystals, but in my experience, struvites are pretty easy to eliminate.

You'll want to keep an eye on him, push the fluids for life and try to keep him from hanging onto his pee for long periods of time (I know--easier said than done), but as a rule, struvites are, technically, the easiest crystals to get rid of and are the least likely to form stones.

I've never had a crystal dog of my own, but I've always flooded my dogs food with water and I attribute my (knock on wood) luck to that.

[RockysMom]

What are the symptoms of crystals?  Rocky has very recently started what I thought was simply marking in the basement at Kelly's where the cat's litter box is......is it possible that this is related to crystals??? 

Crap on a cracker I hope not! 

He is on Natural Balance LID and is one of the obsessive lickers.......

[blanche]

Peeing in unusual spots can be a sign or more frequent peeing.

Again, I'm not sure there is a causal link between a specific food and crystals.  Could be, but there's no evidence of that.  The link I see is lack of hydration--kibble being very dry so urine becomes concentrated and is a breeding ground for infection/crystals.  I posted (I think) and article from the Whole Dog Journal on struvites.

In case I didn't, here's the link:

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_4/features/Detecting-Urinary-Stones-Dogs_16215-1.html

[1pugforme]

Blossom has been on N/B Sweet Potato and Venison dry and wet since Dec 2009, she has allergies so my vet suggested taking her off of Orijan, she has has no issues on this, her coat has become so much softer and thicker.

I would however like to get her off of this brand, I have noticed the the color of the dry kibble various from bag to bag, people on other forms have also noticed this. I have now also stop using any N/B treats, due to a bad experience.

[RockysMom]

Blossom has been on N/B Sweet Potato and Venison dry and wet since Dec 2009, she has allergies so my vet suggested taking her off of Orijan, she has has no issues on this, her coat has become so much softer and thicker.

I would however like to get her off of this brand, I have noticed the the color of the dry kibble various from bag to bag, people on other forms have also noticed this. I have now also stop using any N/B treats, due to a bad experience.

I've tried Acana and Orijen and Rocky can't tolerate either (brutal diarrhea).  Any other suggestions on a quality grain and chicken free kibble?  Raw would probably be the best option, but my life right now is so nutsy that I can't fathom it........

[blanche]

Check out the thread on hypothyroid, Angela.  I think there's a list of no grain kibbles there.  And Acana has a number of different kinds.

Also Go! and Now! have a variety.  Merrick's Before Grain (BG) are used by a few people.

I've had good success with Taste of the Wild as well

[Anna]

We have switched Darwin over to Merricks canned Venison Holiday Stew.  He loves it and so far no itchies and no crystals so hopefully we have a winner.  Ada is still on LID flooded with water but we may switch her too.

When you put a dog on canned food, do you have to worry more about their teeth?  I was raised on a "kibble is better for their teeth" mentality which is outdated I know, but hard to shake.

[blanche]

Teeth and food--it's a bit of a myth that kibble keeps teeth clean unless the kibble is so huge that the dog actually chews it and none of mine do nor have I ever given kibble big enough to force them to chew.  I think with pugs you ALWAYS have to worry about teeth given the conformation of their mouths.  So yes, you do want to continue to give things they can chew on.  Doesn't solve all the problems, but then neither does kibble.

I do brush my guys teeth as there are spots in their mouths that bones and bully sticks just can't reach.

[Anna]

We have chews and teeth brushing for the pugs as it is, and Darwin is goings to have his first dental most likely when he has his yearly check-up, but we will likely step up the diligence.

[blanche]

We have chews and teeth brushing for the pugs as it is, and Darwin is goings to have his first dental most likely when he has his yearly check-up, but we will likely step up the diligence.

It's really hard to guess who's mouth is okay and whose won't be.  Lola should have (by all the laws of averages for poms) been toothless by the time she died, but she had most of them.  She didn't have her first dental till she was almost 10 and then didn't have any extractions.  Had a few in her last dental, but still went to her grave with most of her teeth.  And that's really rare.  Most poms are gumming their food at an early age.  The pugs have so-so teeth. Hazel has the best teeth and shouldn't given her early years in the mill with lots of litters and crappy diet.