helping families track down original pug beginnings?

[keep on pugging]

Would love to see Pugalug consider a program to help those interested in tracking down original pug beginnings for their beloved pugs. Maybe someone got a pug elsewhere and wants help tracking down the original beginnings and Puglaug could be given a donation (i.e.$25) for helping perform such a search?  Realize Pugalug is involved in so much now, but thought it was a neat idea and had to mention it?

[Anna]

Unless the pug was from a breeder or a pet store I'm not sure how someone would go about that.  Pet stores won't admit to the mills they use so at most you could get a middle man company which probably gets stock from a number of mills so it would be difficult to trace back further than that.  And BYBs and dogs on their 3rd or 4th home would be another problem - no records to search.  A lot of dogs don't have microchips or tattoos so unless the owner has some idea of where they are from already I think a search wouldn't be possible or would at least be really difficult.  I've never personally tried though so I could be wrong.

[blanche]

A CKC registered pug can be tracked through them.  With our rescues, we often can't help you track because we (1) don't have a clue or (2) would be in violation of confidentiality of the surrendering owners.  If we DO know the origins of a rescued pug, we can usually tell the adopters --i.e. pet store, breeder, etc.    However, we often don't have much information on the dogs in our care and we don't pursue past owners unless absolutely necessary.  Many of our dogs have had 2, 3, 4 or more owners in their lives.

It's not a do-able task for us.  If you are interested in tracking down the origins of your personal pug, then start with whatever paperwork you have and start working your way backwards.

[keep on pugging]

Unless the pug was from a breeder or a pet store I'm not sure how someone would go about that.  Pet stores won't admit to the mills they use so at most you could get a middle man company which probably gets stock from a number of mills so it would be difficult to trace back further than that.  And BYBs and dogs on their 3rd or 4th home would be another problem - no records to search.  A lot of dogs don't have microchips or tattoos so unless the owner has some idea of where they are from already I think a search wouldn't be possible or would at least be really difficult.  I've never personally tried though so I could be wrong.

I've done some tracking myself, but only got so far, very interesting though.

[blanche]

We don't have any more expertise in this than the average, reasonably intelligent dog owner.  Tank I know a bit about as he is from a breeder, but I don't know how many homes he had for sure before coming to me--except I know it was at least two homes.
Hazel is originally from Missouri--bought off the internet for breeding. 

Lola is from the SPCA and an owner surrender.

Theo is from TAS originally--brought in by the police when they took his owner to jail.  But I don't have the owner's name or info as the shelter doesn't give that out, nor should they.

[Sandy and Debbie]

The beautiful Miss Betty was from a breeder and was CKC registered.  The only registered dog I have ever had.  She even came with her papers!!

[keep on pugging]

Can a dog ORIGINALLY from a pet store, be tracked to the REAL place of origin?  

[Anna]

microchips replaced tattoos as the main pet id because it is a lot less invasive, quicker, and easier to do.  Our Shih Tzu and Maltese were tattooed 20 years ago and it was done when they were pups and in for their spay/neuter so they were already asleep for one procedure so it was just made into two.   With microchips there isn't any need to put the animal under to do it, it's just a big needle injected into the extra skin/fat at the shoulders.  It's relatively painless and takes about a minute to do.  It's not much different that them getting a vaccine.  Microchips are registered with a company, like 24Petwatch, so if a chip is scanned with their scanner, the info comes up.  It's not foolproof since there is more than one company with scanners so there can be issues with one brand of chips not scanning on another brands scanner but I've heard that issue is getting better.  Tattoos were tracked in a similar fashion.  The tattoo was an individual id number, a serial number really, that was unique to your animal in a national database.  Microchips are safer since tattoos are easier to remove than microchips.

[keep on pugging]

microchips replaced tattoos as the main pet id because it is a lot less invasive, quicker, and easier to do.  Our Shih Tzu and Maltese were tattooed 20 years ago and it was done when they were pups and in for their spay/neuter so they were already asleep for one procedure so it was just made into two.   With microchips there isn't any need to put the animal under to do it, it's just a big needle injected into the extra skin/fat at the shoulders.  It's relatively painless and takes about a minute to do.  It's not much different that them getting a vaccine.  Microchips are registered with a company, like 24Petwatch, so if a chip is scanned with their scanner, the info comes up.  It's not foolproof since there is more than one company with scanners so there can be issues with one brand of chips not scanning on another brands scanner but I've heard that issue is getting better.  Tattoos were tracked in a similar fashion.  The tattoo was an individual id number, a serial number really, that was unique to your animal in a national database.  Microchips are safer since tattoos are easier to remove than microchips.

Interesting.

[keep on pugging]

Will microchipping be offered again at any of the upcoming events this year?

[Anna]

Can a dog from a pet store, be tracked to the REAL place of origin? 

Reporters have managed to track dogs in some of their expos but I'd imagine it's difficult.  You would need to find out which broker company the pet store purchase their "stock" from.  Then you would have to find out which puppymills the broker company uses.  They usually use more than one so how you'd figure out which mill your dog came from I have no idea.  There could be some info on the paperwork that the pet stores gives but that seems unlikely since they don't like to advertise the puppy mill fact.

[blanche]

www.ourgreyhounds.co.uk/Tips/greyhounds.htm -

This link has some info on tattoos on dogs and what they can tell you.

The reality is, Deb, that unless you have some paper work that gives you a starting place or have some idea of where a dog might have come from, it's an almost impossible task.  Hazel was sold back and forth on the internet, isn't tattooed--although she has several microchips in her.  She came from a puppy mill likely and mostly likely a US one, but who knows which one.  We don't even know her real age.  the paperwork that came with her listed her as way younger than was possible given the state of her uterus and teats.

[keep on pugging]

Reporters have managed to track dogs in some of their expos but I'd imagine it's difficult.  You would need to find out which broker company the pet store purchase their "stock" from.  Then you would have to find out which puppymills the broker company uses.  They usually use more than one so how you'd figure out which mill your dog came from I have no idea.  There could be some info on the paperwork that the pet stores gives but that seems unlikely since they don't like to advertise the puppy mill fact.

I remember the documentary on CBC Newsworld about that and the pet store.  I imagine many people that got their dogs from pet stores would be curious to know the truth?    

[Anna]

Actually I think that many people who buy from a pet store don't know to look into things further or don't want to know. 

[blanche]

Deb:
Microchipping at events is usually done only at the events we do with K9 Rescue Me--the bigger trade shows, or some of the joint events at the PawsWay.  We haven't offered chipping at a Pugalug yet that I'm aware of and likely won't in the near future.

ALL pet store dogs are from either puppy mills or backyard breeders.  Most pet stores tell you that their dogs are from "local breeders" which may be true--but those breeders aren't producing quality dogs and generally aren't doing any kind of health testing, etc.  If you need to sell your dogs via a pet store, then that is just one of many indications that you aren't a good breeder.

My question: Are you doing this history search for help on his health conditions or just out of curiosity?  I have found that doing a history check doesn't help resolve or understand health issues unless you can actually get a pedigree and a history on sire/dam and health of the various litters.  And even then it doesn't always help as you can get a "fluke" health issue pop up even in the best bred dogs.

If it's simple curiosity, I understand that.  I just wanted to warn you that you may not get any resolution to health issues from doing a search