Outing the Vaccine-crazy Vets

[Pugpillow]

I'm really getting sick of dealing with vets who give rabies vaccinations inappropriately.  Today, when getting details about one of our Pugalug rescues whose 3 year rabies vaccine was diarized to be boostered in 12 months (!), I got told by the receptionist that the City of Toronto requires annual vaccinations.  I said, "sorry, that is not correct".  She said, "Well, that's what the vet said and he has 35 years of experience".

I say it's time to out these vets whose clients are being over-vaccinated.    Maybe then, other clients of theirs will join the protest for them to change their protocol.  Anyone interested in sharing their experiences?

p.s. this is not libelous or slanderous as we are just stating what they do - just the facts.

[lmcpug]

Hilary;

I will join you on that!
I've been fighting vets since 1975 over what is the correct amount of crap we keep putting into pets systems.

Most look at you like you have two heads and no brains. Just because you did not go through the long years of vet schooling
As with Human Drs' (after my experiences with my father) I say Vets' need to start looking at what is best for the patient and quite experimenting on them.

Take the time to know the facts and look at the other side of the story.
All stories have flip sides and everything needs to be evaluated not just what they learned in Vet school from Professors who haven't been in the field for a long time and may not be up on their "Knowledge"

[Anonymous]

I know I'm going to sound very stupid, but I'm not familiar with the 3 year rabies vaccine.  Is this something new, or should we be vaccinating our dogs only once every three years for rabies.  

Sorry for the ignorance.....

I'm a nurse and have long had concerns about what seems to be excessive vaccinations being given to children and from what I believe I'm hearing, the same is happening to our pets?

Can you help clarify the issue for me?

[blanche]

There has been a three year Rabies vaccine for quite a while, it's just not promoted much.  If you haven't yet, do go to the Rabies Challenge Fund website and read about the work of Dr. Jean Dodds.  She is challenging the vaccine protocols in place.
In my opinion, we DO over vaccinate our animals--A LOT.  Yes, you need to be careful as some of the diseases ARE killers--parvo and distemper to name two, but vaccines have a much longer duration than we are often led to believe.
I only ever get a three year rabies and I only vaccinate every three years--and I don't vaccinate for rabies in the same year I vaccinate for anything else.

[Anonymous]

I have to go to the vets on Monday anyway so I'll be asking to see the vaccine that they use to determine if it is the 3 year of 1 year.  And I will not allow the vet to use the 1 year again.....although it does sound like I might have a fight on my hands if they aren't already using it....

[blanche]

You can call and ask them to order the three year for you--IMRAB3 is what I ask for.  YOU ARE THE CLIENT--YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR AND RECEIVE IT.  If you send me your email address, I can send you soem of the vaccine info from Jean Dodds.  It's worth reading

[Pugpillow]

Again !!!!!!  There was a city-wide rabies clinic at many of the vets in Trenton this morning.  I was parked  beside one picking up cleaning and saw the line-up of dogs and their companions waiting to get it.  When one young woman came past our car, I asked her what vaccine she got for her dog.  She didn't know but showed me the certificate.  it was an IMRAB one year.  I expressed disgust at that and told her to ask for the 3 year next time.  She told me emphatically that they need to be vaccinated every year to satisfy the municipality.  I told her that was not so.  She didn't believe me.  I will be calling the City on Monday to get proof positive and then will either be sending a letter to all the vets in the city and/or will try and get an article in the local rag.  I'm really, really, really sick of the ignorance on the part of vets.

Age of Dogs   -   Vaccine Type
Puppies

Age 9 - 10 weeks: Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy DPV)

Age 14 weeks: same as above

Age 16 - 18 weeks (optional): same as above (optonal)

Age 20 weeks or more: rabies

Age 1 year: Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV

Age 1 year: Rabies, killed 3-year product (give 3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster)

Adults

Distemper and parvovirus: Perform vaccine antibody titers every three years after last puppy shots, or more often, if desired.

Rabies: Vaccinate for rabies virus according to the law*, except where circumstances indicate that a written waiver needs to be obtained from the primary care veterinarian.  In that case, a rabies antibody titer can also be performed to accompany the waiver request.  

* IN ONTARIO, there is no requirement for annual revaccination. Timing of revaccination is determined by the duration of immunity stipulated on the vaccine used.  Under Ontario regulation 567/90, a pet is considered vaccinated against rabies if the time that has elapsed since the vaccination was given is less than the duration of immunity as set out on the vaccine's label.  So if your pug gets a 3 year rabies vaccine on October 4, 2008 they do not need another and SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER vaccination until October 4, 2011.

AND NEVER, EVER VACCINATE A PET WHO IS NOT IN GGOD HEALTH, OR WHO IS PREGNANT OR LACTATING.

[Pugpillow]

By the way, I emailed the City of Toronto last week and they told me unequivocably that they are guided by the provincial Regulation and absolutely do not require annual rabies vaccinations.

[lmcpug]

Good stuff, Hilary!!
Go get'em girl!!!

We really need to educate all pet friends and especially the Vets!!!

Another good sticky by the way


Lori

[Anonymous]

I'm curious.....is this misconception the result of a lack of understanding or a money making scheme?  I'm a little suspicious that with all the research done the vets are not more aware of this and are not advocating for their animal patients more stringently!!

[Pugpillow]

I'm curious.....is this misconception the result of a lack of understanding or a money making scheme?  I'm a little suspicious that with all the research done the vets are not more aware of this and are not advocating for their animal patients more stringently!!

Here's my take on it.  I think that most vets are well-intentioned and believe they are doing the right thing.  (I also think they often take a god-like position, believing most of their clients don't know very much about veterinary care - which may be true and shame on us for not investigating more.  We must push to educate them as needed and advocate on behalf of our pets.) I believe there is not enough emphasis placed on continuing education and self-education on the part of vets.  Scientific advancements over time make changes in treatment and protocols advisable and many clinicians don't seem to be keeping up.  And, to be fair, there is really no impetus for them to do so.  

They continue to recommend foods they stock in their clinics because:
1. they believe these foods to be the best (they are being "fed" wrong information by the manufacturers who sponsor their vet training, sometimes even teach nutrition courses in vet school and then market heavily through sales reps when they graduate)
2 they don't believe the product will harm their clients
3. they make a profit on the product
4. in some cases they get personal incentives from the manufacturers for high volumes of sales.

They continue to give annual vaccinations or trienniel vaccinations every year or every two years because:
1. they believe this is the right thing to do
2. they don't believe the vaccinations will harm their clients
3. vaccinations and the comcomitant vet checkups are a significant portion of their clinic's revenue
4. this is the way things have always been done and they haven't kept up with the changes.
5. they are getting inadequate leadership on the issue from their governing body.


Annual vaccinations started many decades ago.  The timing was arbitrary (no scientific support for vaccinating every 12 months) and decided upon to encourage clients to bring their vets into the clinic for an annual checkup.

'Way back in the 1970s, Dr. Ronald Schultz started questioning the necessity of annual vaccinations and seeing a link between overvaccinating and disease.  But it was not until 2003 that the authorities in the vet industry started adopting his recommendation that rabies vaccinations should be given not more frequently than every three years.  The wheels of progress move slowly!

In recent times, the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) has published several papers supporting a move to three-year protocols.  The World Small Animal Veterinary Association, the American Animal Hospital Association, The American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine and many veterinary schools are among others now recommending 3 year rather than annual boosters. In 2007 our own CVMA stated "existing serologic and challenge data, as well as expert panels, suggest that vaccination may provide immunity that lasts beyond the label recommendation of vaccines for some viral diseases."  but stopped short of recommending triennial vaccinations.  The Ontario VMA has done nothing to help, a matter I continue to address with them.   Both local bodies, however, respect the efficacy of triennial vaccine and the Ontario regulation says that as long as the minimum duration of immunity (DOI) shown on the manufacturer's label (e.g. 3 years) is still in effect, the animal is considered to be immune for legal reasons.  

We are hoping that the current Rabies Challenge study will bring not only additional awareness to our own vet community but acceptance of scientific-based protocols.

We can do our part by ensuring our own vets :
- use the 3 -year rabies vaccine and
- booster no more frequently than every 3 years
- do not vaccinate unhealthy and/or immune-suppressed animals
- do not vaccinate during or within 2 weeks (either side) of surgery
- separate the other core vaccines (DA2PP) from the rabies vaccine by at least 2 weeks
- issue exemptions for rabies vaccines when the dog should not be vaccinated for health or behavioural reasons
- are accurate in their knowledge of local rabies vaccination requirements
- except for rabies (the only one required by law), vaccinate only for diseases prevalent in the locality



http://designerbostons.homestead.com/mi ... chor_13041

[Milo]

I just learned about titers this year.  Milo and Izzie have only ever received the three year rabies vaccine, however, after Izzie's reaction to her vaccines last year I was determined to be a better advocate for my little ones. Why is it that we get so much information about vaccines and little information about titers. Unfortunately rabies titers are not sufficient for the municipalities (or at least this is what I was told).  The results of Milo and Izzie's titers showed that neither of them needed to be vaccinated.  If I had just gone through with the annual vaccination schedule they would have been over vaccinated as they have been in the past.  I am upset that I did not educate myself on this sooner, but am glad that from now on I will speak up for Milo and Izzie since they cannot do so for themselves.

[Pugpillow]

Good for you, Kim!!!   Titer testing used to have to be sent out to the States and was quite expensive.  Now it is being brought into Canada and more common.  BTW, you can do titer testing for diseases other than rabies, so your babies don't need to get the DA2PP.

[Milo]

They did a titer test for DA2PP.  I am very happy not to have had them vaccinated for anything this year.  Another decision I made was not to give them heartworm medication (though I did have them tested for heartworm).  I am still nervous about not giving them heartworm medication, but am using a natural flea, tick, mosquito repellent (which is a blend of natural oils) and am hoping for the best.  After Izzie's operation I made a commitment to them to not only feed them as naturally as I could (which I have been doing for several years, thanks in large part to the information on this forum), but also to try to avoid unnecessary vaccinations and reduce the chemical treatments they receive.

[lmcpug]

Here, here ..... Hilary
I salute you!    Same as with humans, if what your current Vet is telling you, makes you step back and say hey wait a minute.....then you have every right to seek another opinion!  Be proactive!!!  question everything and be aware!!

Again Hilary you have made a good argument over the practise of vaccinations

Lori